I usually only blog about KDE related stuff here, but I think the current situation warrants something else. What is going on in Tibet is horrible, and the Chinese government should be ashamed of themselves - again.
And apparently, the Chinese government took this war digital. Tibet.org is down, and I just read reports about emails with malware being send to known supporters of the Tibetan cause from unknown Chinese origin. Nothing is sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese government had something to do with this. So they started it themselves.
Seeing the atrocities going on, it seems the Chinese really want their 'Genocide Olympics' (hint to the Darfur situation, but equally relevant to the cultural and now growing physical genocide in Tibet). I know KDE isn't into politics, but honestly, is this politics? This has got to stop.
So. What can freedom-loving people like we do now? Not too much, but imho the least we can do is protest, speak up. This is my little thing. Who's with me?
I am with you.
ReplyDeleteI think the best thing you can do is post posts like your last one in as many places on the Internet as possible so they get blocked by the Chinese government and eventually the Chinese people will wake up and realise that their filtered version of events aren't real. Google could have helped with this by not negotiating but oh well.
ReplyDeleteNice post mate.
I agree with you !
ReplyDeleteIf people haven't been following the situation closely (and even if they have) I highly recommend heading over to boingboing.net and reading the last few posts by Xeni Jardim.
ReplyDeleteShe's doing a great job of summing up the events there and the reaction of the Chinese government, which amounts to cracking down on protesters and waging information warfare to keep everyone in the dark.
There we go again with the freedom bullshit. It is always the same way that this things starts, but you are not there when the americans go there put their bombs on innocent people, just because our beloved freedom.
ReplyDeleteFreedom for the americans, and those who follow their rules, are good when the "owners" of the government are american allies.
BBC website is, for 3 weeks, showing and speaking about the "brave fight" of the tibetan people. And the other side of the story ? Is Tibet part of China or not ? To you think disaggregation of a country is good for all tibetans, or just for the good boy of international press, Mr. Dalai Lama ? i am not saying that chinese are right or tibetans are right, but i want to hear BOTH SIDES of the story. Cant you see that, in your freedom, you just have access to just one side, exactly the same way chinese people ?
And then they put Richard Gere to speak about boycoting the olympics. My God, the olympics are not about politics, this same stupid actor dont remeber that the nazis used olympics for their own good ? And now they try to do the same ?
We live in a world that, you are on one side or another, according to Mr. Bush and others. Open and eyes and try to see that never a problem is so simple. Free Tibet. Keep Tibet on China. It is not like this, and this kind of thinking (you are with us or you are with the "axis of evil") never can solve any problem, just create more problems.
Go study the latin american story of the 60s, 70s and 80s, when for the sake of our safety they took away our freedom, and killed thousands of innocents who dare to oppose. When the governments were again safe for the americans they allowed the comeback of "democracy" and our freedom. Of course, so many dye each day without nothing to eat, but yes, we are free, and this is so good. Ask how many brazilians would like to exchange freedom for food, a forever trade, and you are gonna be surprised that american/european good freedom is not what the world want.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteone of the things I do is to tell my relatives and friends about every issue I hear about China and the Olympics.
It will be hard for them to enjoy watching it on TV then. :)
Not much? Well. Everything I can do and if everyone did it, more people would know about the bad things going on there. Making the people think about an issue is a big step, imho.
- 1.5 million people in Beijing were resettled by force
- during x-mas holiday when most "western" journalists were at home with their families, many olympic-critical voices were imprisoned in China
- 800,000 qubic metres of illegally cut merbau wood were shipped from Indonesia
- ...
The list grows...
But what's going on in Tibet right now should be a reason for the self-proclaimed civilised world to boykott the games.
When Russia invaded Afghanistan in 1979, 65 countries refused to attend the games in Moscow one year later. But it's different with China and Tibet. Tibetans seems to be not so important for some. In Germany many political voices are clearly against a boykott, because "it would be unfair against the sportive aspect of the games".
Sometimes I'm embarrassed by the stupidity that comes out of our political squad...
Sometimes, if I tell people about some of the really bad thiings going on due to the Beijing2008 thing, I get responses like "Do you have to ruin everything for us?". And sometimes I just want to hit people in their face for saying things like that.
Fortunately there's some international discussion going on now and I hope that this year will go down in history as a milestone for the liberation of Tibet from the chinese occupation.
cheers
Go read wikipedia.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet
Especially pay attention to the parts about england massacre in 1906 in Tibet, the part about Tibet insurrection in 1956, supported by CIA, and the part about land redistribution, that led to this insurrection. Read about what Tibet is considered for China, and what Dalai Lama wants: not independence, but more autonomy, according to his words.
Or go out your american/european windows, where people against war in Iraq in New York and Bruxels are getting arrested. They must be from the axis of evil, for sure. Go bomb them.
Chinese occupation ? Not even Dalai Lama agree with you, go learn something.
Thank you, Jos.
ReplyDeleteI can sujest one thing. Do widget "Learn our self" and do it national dependent. Let american see killing peoples in Bagdad and in Vietnam and in Serbia and read about it. And then let chinese see blocked sites, Tibet, facts about bad Chinese history (there are many). Of course every set of facts and pictures could be provided from anonymous from that country.
ReplyDeleteAbout the 'other side of the story':
ReplyDeleteI see how one could not trust the American government - they have proven to only support 'freedom' as long as it fits their scheme and brings in some money. But this isn't about them, or about a Western view on freedom, or axis of evil or whatever silly stuff. People there are being treated horribly - no matter how you put it.
The Chinese government just wants to be in control and would rather submerge the world in a nuclear winter than admit they shouldn't be there. It's a matter of face for them. So now they are killing and repressing people to protect their image. You can say what you want but you can't honestly believe that's a good thing?
Sure, we need to hear both sides. But if things start with one of the side blocking all communications, then...well, the other side of the world simply cannot trust what they say. Why not let international publicists enter Tibet and say what is there? They do report abuses made by Americans and other nations, after all it wasn't the government who reported the abuses in the Iraq and Guantanamo prisons... Trust would start with openness. If Chinese people say they are right and they did not commit genocide, let the world enter and see they are right. And let their own people know what happens in their country and outside of it.
ReplyDeleteNo, I do not sympathize with the Chinese government and I do not trust them at all. I've seen how communists behave enough, from first hand. With the problems capitalism and democracy has, with the lies our politicians tell every time, it is still much better, as at least you have the chance to reach information from various sources and to decide yourself which part you believe. You have the freedom of choice and the freedom to speak.
I'm shame of you too, how much you know about tibert? if you don't know, please pay attention to this video on youtube:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas
after you watching these two video, then comment.
and this article for more:
http://www.danwei.org/blogs/squeezing_the_olympic_balls.php
do remember:
only you know the truth, then can you comment on it.
I'm sorry, but who cares if Tibet is part of China or not? If you go back in time long enough, you'll discover China was once part of Tibet. And before that, dinosaurs ruled the land. I don't see how it matters. I'm not arguing for letting any part of what we now call China do whatever they like - I just think the Chinese government should stop killing people but give them some say in what happens with THEIR lives. History is useless - it only teaches us how humans don't learn from history anyway.
ReplyDeleteThe historical facts don't matter at all. You think it's fair to kill everyone in a country just because it once belonged to some distant forefathers of YOUR country? Who cares? They're dead anyway, let them and everything, stupid or smart they did, rest in peace. We're living now, and killing people just because you would like to call a certain piece of ground 'China' or 'Tibet' is a very stupid reason.
Call their land China, call it Calimari for what it's worth - but don't kill them just because the happen to disagree with you about what they can and cannot do. This isn't about history, this isn't about independence either (some anonymous said that rightly so) but this is about control. People should be able to choose their own way, not have some other people, for some stupid reason, dictate what they can and can't do.
That's what I object to.
I am Chinese, and lived in Beijing for some years. I do not like so much big city and also do not like Olympics 2008 in Beijing.
ReplyDeleteBut for Tibet, it's part of China for so many years. And I don't think China was part of Tibet at any time in history.
Maybe some of you can have a look at this news, Some west media made fake news.
I am not sure the initial news of west media, maybe you can help me to find them.
@henrique marks
ReplyDeleteAll I can see from your statements is that we should stop arguing for freedome in tibet because there are other wars too and hey, the dalai lama doesn't even agree with you...
Pretty poor dont't you think?
The DL started speaking of autonomy instead of independence because every time he spoke of the latter, China started punishing tibetans even more.
And yes, there are other wars going on. Sad but true. No need to look away in this particular case. It's quite a bad habit of people to care.
And yes, other people had been cruel hundred years ago... even thousand years ago. I don't get it. Are you saying that one should not be against the chinese genocide because the own country did bad things in the past as well?
My country did bad things in the past. I have to pay for that even today. I once wa attacked in Norway for being german. And I am not allowed to criticise what's going on in the Gaza strip. How could I, my forefathers did things...
All bullshit, imho. My forefathers did nothing to anyone and so did I. Besides, if everybody stopped criticising injustice because the "own country" did something bad sometime in the past, there would be no critique at all. Nicely done!
So, what do you want us to do? Stop just saying stupid things about us not learning enough and such. What's your point? And don't just say our attitude is what we should change... You do not know a thing about my attitude. You just read a few lines from me written in a foreign language. I consider my attitude as all correct as long it forces me to feel for the one that is attacked.
cheers
Hi
ReplyDelete> But for Tibet, it's part of China for so
> many years. And I don't think China was
> part of Tibet at any time in history."
I agree with Jos in the ponit that killing hundreds of thousands of people and destroy their culture is not excusable by saying that it's happening in a place that used to belong to my country once. Borders change almost every year somewhere in the world.
About the "fake news in western media" issue, all I can see is wrongly labelled images. Sure bad job of them but I als see that if it comes to local politics, economic issues or entertainment. The wront musician is shown on a picture, the article is about nuclear energy and the picture shown power plant fueled with coal, article says politics visit City A but the picture shown them in City B. Media services use archives of millions of pictures. They tend to choose the wrong image for an article once in a while.
For the german example the wrong information is not really important for the rest of the article and its message. It tells about there being an insurrection where tibetand throw stones in chinese stores and such and the chinese government fighting it back. Not much of an opinion maker. I would see it as an error they made while looking for an image label.
Original article: http://www.morgenpost.de/content/2008/03/17/politik/952457.html
I consider the chinese media criticising other media for such mistakes as a bit, well... insolent. But I cannot discuss this on a solid basis because I cannot read chinese.
It's quite conspicious though that the chinese government doesn't allow foreign journalists to soo what's going on. There's no valid reason for that besides hiding the truth. So I guess the readers of chinese media are not as well informed as readers most western media.
Nobody is perfect, there is not only black and white. But there is always a less and a more evil. I consider the german media (yes, I know, there's really bad german media as well...) in its current state as one of the lesser evils. They at least are allowed (and use that privilege quite often) to criticise govermental decisions and personal.
cheers
if you will choose between freedom and peace, what will you do?
ReplyDeleteand make sure freedom is all of the tibetans' freedom or just your freedom or just your americans' or somebody's. I just see the peace break, and this isn't origin in the chinese government.
The true is Tibet is a part of China for more than 50 years in the law, even if you don't agree with me.
The chinese forced a tibetan division the dalai lama sent to sign some paper. The dalai lama revoked it.
ReplyDeleteBy my law, your house belongs to me. "even if you don't agree with me" ...
I've thought about this some, and decided I don't really care about the history. I'm against forcing people to be part of something they do not want to be.
ReplyDeleteFor Canada (my home country), for example, that means if Quebec wants to leave, Quebec should be allowed to (no matter how much it may sadden me to see the country split up). Dido for Tibet.
I just wonder how many of you guys have ever been to tibert or China? how can you say our gov are killing the tiberters? As I have pointed out in last commnets, if you don't know the truth, you can not take anything for granted. If you don't, plz come to find the real truth. You can not just believe in what the fuck western media are talking about, their are so many fake news from German media, BBC, CNN. If you can't come to China, you also may figure out the real truth from those fuck western media's report. Like the BBC's video news, they reported the CLA are killing the tiberters, but what we can see from the video is an ambulance, so come on, we should for real truth, but not the gossip.
ReplyDeleteMe!
ReplyDeleteIf the choice is between USA and China I'd rather don't choose at all.
ReplyDeleteBut that's not a solution.
I'm from Poland. Right before II WW my country had been invaded by Germany and Soviet Russa.
We had alliances with UK and France, but that countries only "declared war" to Germany, not even mentioned USSR, and until Germany not invaded France, they war with Nazis was just standing on frontier and waiting.
Poland had been conquered, then Nazis went to France, then we all know what happened.
So I'm at position that world should do what it can to stop countries from invading/occupying each other.
By the way - when you live in country that is occupied by the greatest country of the world (at least in terms of population), it's not wise to say that you want independece.
You must be diplomatic.
Dalai Lama say they only wants autonomy. But I think it only mean they can't have independence, and don't want to look unreasonable.
My country has exprienced many years of waiting for independence. I can understand better that not everybody can say what he/she want.
When saying truth costs you life, you don't do it just for it's sake. You wait to give your life for truth when it will matter something.
Ok, i'm little pathetic.
Help these people, if you can.
I hope Chine will be someday normal, free country. Not like USA - USA isn't free anymore.
But I'll take USA - freedom over Chinese freedom every day, thank you.
Greetings and sorry for my English.
> I just wonder how many of you guys
ReplyDelete> have ever been to tibert or China?
A friend of mine and a guy I am working with closely. The latter was there for three years.
> how can you say our gov are killing
> the tiberters?
How can you say they don't?
> As I have pointed out in last
> commnets, if you don't know the truth,
> you can not take anything for granted.
If everybody in the world (media and private persons) say that tibetans are killed and the only one with a different opinion about that is the accused one, then your common sense lamp has to blink.
And what the chinese government thinks about demonstrations, they "told" its own citizens in June 1989.
> If you don't, plz come to find the
> real truth.
Are you there? Are you in Lhasa right now? Or do you have to believe what your television says?
> You can not just believe in what the
> fuck western media are talking about,
> their are so many fake news from
> German media, BBC, CNN.
You mean that those THREE mistakes are a proof for the general doubtfulness of western media? That only the chinese media is right?
As for the german one, I wrote the author of the story and he answered that he will check the archive and try to fix it (if true).
You know. There is a difference between mistakes and intentional misinformation. For the german media (which was a quite small newspaper anyway) I consider it being just a mistake.
As I said. If only the accused one says he hasn't done it, it is very hard to believe him, don't you think?
> If you can't come to China, you also
> may figure out the real truth from
> those fuck western media's report.
So, what should we do then? Just ignore that half the world is talking about the tibet issue just because we cannot see shot tibetans with our own eyes?
> Like the BBC's video news, they
> reported the CLA are killing the
> tiberters, but what we can see from
> the video is an ambulance,
So? Can't there be an ambulance if there are protests? You can see articles about war on Irak and there is just G.W.Bush and some other guy shaking hands. The pictures mostly show side events because it is hard to get the "real" picture.
And again. It is prohibited to take pictures there. So what quality of pictures do you expect? If the chinese government would allow foreign journalists to go there, all could see what's going on. I just cannot believe what the accused one says. As I cannot believe my son if my neighbour says he cut a caper. My son will at first always say that he didn't do anything but that's worth nothing. After talking to him a few minutes he realises that he cannot lie and confesses. So, when does China admit the things it's accused for? Maybe 2008 is a good year for that. There will be enough journalists in China. Maybe there will be another June 1989. Who knows.
> so come on, we should for real truth,
> but not the gossip.
You know. I guess you are a good chinese citizen. You never doubt in your governance. However. I can criticise my government and my media without being imprisoned. So can anyone else. I live in a system where freedom of speech and opinion are lived. The fact that everything my government says is criticised by the media and the citizens very clearly and in open dialogs lets me feel like livin in a free country where I can believe in what the media as a whole says. Sure there is some bullshit in the media here and there. But it's easy to filter that by following different media services. Easy task.
Now tell me how do you accomplish that? Do you feel well informed? Is your media unbiased? What was it what all the imprisoned journalists wanted to say? Have you heard it? Does your government allow you to evaluate events by yourself?
cheers
I agree with you, it's a shame
ReplyDeleteSo, as I said, the author of the german article wanted to clarify the issue and now the image label is changed:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.morgenpost.de/content/2008/03/17/politik/952457.html
It now says something like:
"Scene from the tibetan city Lhasa:
According to the state-controlled chinese media a chinese is saved from tibetan insurrectionists. The nws agency AFP however said, the young man is conducted on the street by 'oppressivly'"
So. Maybe that's more clear.
cheers
meeee!!
ReplyDelete