tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post4043796909628826498..comments2024-01-16T14:13:50.160+01:00Comments on all mine!: On the value of collaborationJos Poortvliethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-53483532483080319812012-07-11T14:44:18.710+02:002012-07-11T14:44:18.710+02:00The work the Fedora team does to get KDE ready for...The work the Fedora team does to get KDE ready for new infrastructure (often also being developed within Fedora) is really amazing and I thank you for that :DJos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-62839137188469965722012-05-13T22:15:37.458+02:002012-05-13T22:15:37.458+02:00actually, see my new blog - we have made YaST avai...actually, see my new blog - we have made YaST available on other distro's.Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-45525289648136640002012-05-11T15:56:09.412+02:002012-05-11T15:56:09.412+02:00> * I do know the new store in Plasma Active us...> * I do know the new store in Plasma Active uses but doesn't completely follow the OCS spec - yet no patches or requests for changes came there according to Frank. That sounds bad to me but I can't judge the details, esp considering there's some personal stuff there. I think the schism related to that is the worst thing going on in KDE right now...<br /><br />I totally agree with you about that, Jos! Unfortunately, you are so much right in there. :(<br /><br />I have also tried to discuss with the Plasma Active developers the OCS material at the Plasma Active sprint and afterwards, since I have been working heavily around OCS as well in my pastime, but all I got ignoring. :(<br /><br />See my thread in here:<br />http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/active/2012-March/003164.html<br /><br />Luckily enough, there was a person appearing recently on our ocs mailing list with a gnome store project. Furthermore, we have now also been working on a Qt Store for QML/JS applications cross-desktop.<br /><br />I am having a student working on the JSON parser bits under the GSoC umbrealla for OCS in the Qt client library (attica), so purposefully and hopefully, we will have JSON specification for OCS as well relatively soon. :-) Not to mentiong, we have been planning OCS2 as well, but we need some time to get that actually done in the practice. :-)Laszlo Papphttp://www.kde.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-58694288478716562732012-05-11T14:40:35.294+02:002012-05-11T14:40:35.294+02:00BTW that's exactly what the first commenter sa...BTW that's exactly what the first commenter said on the blog about Muon Discover. It's a great tool (just watched the video again, it's really awesome) and could give KDE an edge in software management. Too bad it's tied to one distro, limiting the value it has for KDE and Free Software. I would love to see this as a KDE app - not distro-specific. For GNOME, the Ubuntu Software Center might become the tool - KDE could use a good competitor imho.<br /><br />I know it would be more work, but it would also make more sense from a long-term perspective - right? That's been the argument of my blog all along - it makes more sense, both for your own project and the wider FOSS world, to collaborate.<br /><br />And no, if you don't, I still love you, Riddel and everyone else at Kubuntu. That's not the point here, I'm not trying to say 'bad bad boys', just saying it'd be great to work together and highlighting some projects where we do that.Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-81964086675182316312012-05-11T14:33:13.777+02:002012-05-11T14:33:13.777+02:00Yast, like (I bet) many other tools, was meant to ...Yast, like (I bet) many other tools, was meant to be cross-distro, but nobody was interested.<br /><br />It needs replacement anyway as it's older than most other entire Linux distro's and those working on a replacement surely look outside of their own distro tools.<br /><br />Note that YaST does more than package management, that's just one module. There's basically nothing else on the Linux space which does what YaST does. So replacing it will be hard...Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-36403636658086144382012-05-11T14:29:30.616+02:002012-05-11T14:29:30.616+02:00True, sharing data would be a good idea. And that&...True, sharing data would be a good idea. And that's what we're working on with Appstream. Using the Open Collaboration Services spec for the reviews and ratings, screenshots from screenshots.debian.net etc. It'd be nice if you got involved.<br /><br />I personally still think having a shared client would also be nice. Instead of having a new package manager for each distro's every 4 years (at least that's how it has felt to me in my 12 years on Linux/KDE and various distro's) it'd be nice to finally finish something.Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-75887347678182700302012-05-11T03:28:02.610+02:002012-05-11T03:28:02.610+02:00From BlueSystems we've been working on improvi...From BlueSystems we've been working on improving the Kubuntu store (see my blog post from a couple of weeks ago). Honestly, I don't really see what "Ubuntu-only 'app-store'" you mean. We have been using Muon which has nothing to do with an app store and it's definitely not Ubuntu-only. It's tied to APT if you wish, instead.<br /><br />In any case, I don't think it's very important to concentrate in sharing a client, I think we should concentrate in sharing our database of reviews, screenshots and any data we can gather. If we have all this, having a client is a matter of connecting the dots.Aleix Polhttp://proli.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-58602921863922876852012-05-11T03:21:33.249+02:002012-05-11T03:21:33.249+02:00OpenSuse is well known for its opensuse-only yast,...OpenSuse is well known for its opensuse-only yast, I don't really understand this post.Aleix Polhttp://proli.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-56738249707189692512012-05-11T03:18:55.305+02:002012-05-11T03:18:55.305+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179345602175177600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-55461854749466816692012-05-10T17:13:25.588+02:002012-05-10T17:13:25.588+02:00You seem to have missed the point of my blogpost e...You seem to have missed the point of my blogpost entirely, somehow. I wasn't ranting about anyone.<br /><br />And I'm not saying the world is perfect anywhere - I'm just saying it's not smart to not collaborate and it's hurting. That projects re-invented the wheel in the past and didn't collaborate isn't exactly news...Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-18864398026560895832012-05-10T11:20:57.762+02:002012-05-10T11:20:57.762+02:00Ian: that was a very important part of my argument...Ian: that was a very important part of my argument, yes. It is the right thing to do, both from an egoistical AND altruistic point of view. As a matter of fact, this is what makes the Free/Libre/Open Source Software development model so great: you and everybody else benefits from collaboration. Those who don't collaborate loose out in the long run. That took companies like Novell/SUSE and Red Hat a while to figure out, but even a 1 billion dollar behemoth like RH has this upstream-first-policy. That's how important it is...Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-49307245770250864472012-05-10T07:39:41.287+02:002012-05-10T07:39:41.287+02:00Thought I would just add a story regarding Linspir...Thought I would just add a story regarding Linspire.<br /><br />During the KDE3 era, they created their own system for recognizing when you plugged in your USB devices. This was a major missing piece in the Linux desktop. So they filled it and then ported stuff like Amarok to use it.<br /><br />...and then KDE made its own solution not long after that. However they stuck to their own system - maybe due to their egos? Of course then a year goes by and another and they're using some ancient version of Amarok because they don't have the resources to port the new Amarok to their hardware system nor apparently the resources to port their whole OS to the new upstream technology.<br /><br />The benefit to Linspire? Reacting to USB devices for maybe a year earlier than anyone else (maybe!). The cost? Well... they're not around anymore. (Which is a real shame, they were the first with a big promoted 'app store', ahead of their time a bit).<br /><br />So working upstream isn't just about being nice and community-oriented... it's basic good engineering.Ian Monroehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16953610792430204523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-7154926171641027482012-05-09T16:49:39.957+02:002012-05-09T16:49:39.957+02:00I think that your post is quite arbitrary sorry.
O...I think that your post is quite arbitrary sorry.<br />One could say that KDE developpers didn't collaborate when they kept using Qt when it wasn't Free instead of using GTK.<br />Same question about .rpm vs .deb..renoXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03221431358667243128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-50008188565000013662012-05-09T14:28:36.212+02:002012-05-09T14:28:36.212+02:00I've been following the specs Alejandro Nova s...I've been following the specs Alejandro Nova speaks and AFAIK i can confirm that he's right.<br /><br />Let's not start any fire here. This is not the point of the post! Every DE is the best in it's own field!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-69508037370728117182012-05-09T12:17:58.931+02:002012-05-09T12:17:58.931+02:00I think the collaboration between KDE based distri...I think the collaboration between KDE based distribution is really unique and it should be an example for other projects. You can find it everywhere. Everyone contributes back and I usually do not care about dividing upstream/downstream. So thanks all :)<br /><br />And yeah, sometimes we do not use KDE solution primary, if we are unsure it's a good idea. Usually where Fedora is too new to adapt KDE to fit it but we're trying hard :) From polkit to udisks (and now udisks2)... It's great to collaborate!<br /><br />Where it does not work very well for now is Plasma Active land but let's hope it will be better and follow the desktop KDE one day more closely.Rezzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04082731634359611968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-75850070681765386302012-05-08T22:02:12.112+02:002012-05-08T22:02:12.112+02:00I don't even want to try to come up with somet...I don't even want to try to come up with something.<br /><br />If I know enough about a situation to say for sure it's bad, I'm too close to talk about it. If I don't know enough to say for sure, I shouldn't say much either.<br /><br />Let me give two examples - and again, I don't know enough to judge, but these areas least seem to have room for improvement:<br /><br />* I do know the new store in Plasma Active uses but doesn't completely follow the OCS spec - yet no patches or requests for changes came there according to Frank. That sounds bad to me but I can't judge the details, esp considering there's some personal stuff there. I think the schism related to that is the worst thing going on in KDE right now...<br /><br />* I did express my wish that more distro's would jump on Apper/PackageKit - of course Kubuntu and Chakra would be first on that list I suppose. Kubuntu works a lot on their Ubuntu-only 'app-store' and I'd much rather see some of that energy go into a cross-distro effort. Again, I can't judge the details - there might be good reasons for the situation.<br /><br />All in all, to repeat the point I made at the end of my blog: I much rather point to positive examples than to negative. Much less chance of wrongly accusing people of anything.Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-43721861728823056252012-05-08T21:19:50.188+02:002012-05-08T21:19:50.188+02:00Hi, do you have any example about not collaboratin...Hi, do you have any example about not collaborating that is relevant to KDE ?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05190571328740465145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-81993540373862715462012-05-08T19:23:54.438+02:002012-05-08T19:23:54.438+02:00AFAIK Aurélien Gâteau ported all the Ubuntu specs ...AFAIK Aurélien Gâteau ported all the Ubuntu specs to Qt 4.8. If your distro is running a clean, upstream Qt 4.8 (or Qt 4.7 with the Kubuntu patch set) you have support for everything Ubuntu, including the global menu. In fact, I enjoy it on Chakra and Arch Linux.<br /><br />Ironically, Kubuntu is MUCH better than Ubuntu when it's time to upstream system-wide improvements.Alejandro Novahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10956440879688454310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-44942092540619646032012-05-08T14:15:39.686+02:002012-05-08T14:15:39.686+02:00The standard is Windows, when it comes to populari...The standard is Windows, when it comes to popularity. When it comes to 'cool', it's Mac/Apple. Android is the most popular Linux by far. The rest might distinguish themselves with some small things - I think openSUSE sets itself apart by being collaborative and open.Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-52904396737857934352012-05-08T12:22:16.611+02:002012-05-08T12:22:16.611+02:00"... but the ugly truth is that Ubuntu is the..."... but the ugly truth is that Ubuntu is the less open source, community friendly distro out there."<br /><br />You will now be pursued by the whole world by Ubuntu's fans!!!<br /><br />XD XDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-53850055000885063112012-05-08T11:01:33.802+02:002012-05-08T11:01:33.802+02:00@Diederik people still has windows as the pillar o...@Diederik people still has windows as the pillar of easy to use, so..... <br />Now all the ubuntu fan lovers think that before ubuntu there's only a black console and nothing more, and magical mistery man Mark pick a ugly debian and made his magic tricks... but the ugly truth is that Ubuntu is the less open source, community friendly distro out there..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-48706350865523619342012-05-08T00:59:57.400+02:002012-05-08T00:59:57.400+02:00@kamikazow: Is it the brand from _whom_? Follow de...@kamikazow: Is it the brand from _whom_? Follow developers or end users?<br /><br />I hear ubuntu all the time around me. with a reason, people mark it as the pillar of easy to use.Diederik van der Boorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11435808496879023545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-72184190546534963732012-05-08T00:25:32.225+02:002012-05-08T00:25:32.225+02:00Canonical originally adopted KDE's overhauled ...Canonical originally adopted KDE's overhauled systray specs. They should still be compatible unless Canonical broke something afterward.<br /><br />And no, Ubuntu is not "the brand". Fedora is used by more people. Fedora users just usually keep to themselves and do not shout everybody in the face that their OS is the best. (Not counting RHEL, CentOS, etc. users.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-37221069952455980422012-05-07T23:16:29.530+02:002012-05-07T23:16:29.530+02:00Now we may be complaining here, but the truth is t...Now we may be complaining here, but the truth is that Unity is the standard we have to live with. Does KDE support Unity dbus system tray menus and dock menus out of the box? AFAIU no. There is the daisy or how's it called extragear task manager, and that's it. That's where work should be done, in my opinion.<br /><br />The modern young and not so young computer user audience is brand-minded, from what I understand, and they need a brand just to be able to fit Linux into their view of the world. Ubuntu is the brand. That's it.Ignathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01505045570297779840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-49315017724358541272012-05-07T21:52:54.387+02:002012-05-07T21:52:54.387+02:00Dude, I'm really sorry - fixing...Dude, I'm really sorry - fixing...Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.com