tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post7180393406164832589..comments2024-01-16T14:13:50.160+01:00Comments on all mine!: KDE strategy for openSUSEJos Poortvliethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-75487576597547885092010-08-30T22:13:28.290+02:002010-08-30T22:13:28.290+02:00Hi dhunter,
You can count on zypper being very ni...Hi dhunter,<br /><br />You can count on zypper being very nice to you. At least that has been my experience - it's a pretty good package tool. Fast, too, and light on resources as it uses delta packages on upgrading instead of downloading the whole bajeera again.<br /><br />Yast ain't the most sexy or easy to use tool to manage software graphically, but it is fairly powerful. And smart - offering solutions if you want something difficult instead of doing something stupid or telling you it can't be done like other tools do. Zypper does the same on the commandline, btw.<br /><br />And yes, both KDE *and* GNOME are good in openSUSE, quite a feature ;-)<br /><br />It also means you can more easily mix and match things between those - eg I currently use Banshee as music player as I really like it.Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-6608480349710075212010-08-30T00:11:54.265+02:002010-08-30T00:11:54.265+02:00I´m using Kubuntu since 7.10 and I´m always waitin...I´m using Kubuntu since 7.10 and I´m always waiting for the "next" release to be more stable and mature, but such a thing never happens, Ubuntu is a Gnome oriented distro, period, Kubuntu is an alternative project without real Canonical support.<br />I heard some comments about OpenSuse´s KDE desktop and I´m gonna try it as soon as I can, I have to say goodbye to apt but I hope zypper will fix that void.dhunterhttp://127.0.0.1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-86478685336693848252010-08-17T21:14:52.943+02:002010-08-17T21:14:52.943+02:00Dear Jos,
the main indent of the proposal was to ...Dear Jos,<br /><br />the main indent of the proposal was to give oS a clear focus, a direction and something to differ from other mainstream distributions. As oS is historically known as a great KDE distribution, why not focus on these strength.<br /><br />GNOME or other DE's won't loose that much (if even anything). Novell (as the main sponsor) will still support GNOME and a spin could be made available. (Please note that I am personally a GNOME user, but I still think this direction would be the best for the distribution in general).<br /><br />So why don't we just let the community decide which way to go?<br /><br />Greets<br />MarcusMarcus Moellerhttp://marcus-moeller.denoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-82599981594836952542010-08-11T12:25:18.468+02:002010-08-11T12:25:18.468+02:00ARE YOU FED UP BY SEARCHING FOR A GOOD COLLEGE AND...ARE YOU FED UP BY SEARCHING FOR A GOOD COLLEGE AND GOOD EDUCATION? DON’T WASTE YOUR <br />VALUABLE TIME, WE PROVIDE YOU DETAILS OF GOOD EDUCATIONAL COLLEGES AND OUR EXPERTS<br /> WILL GIVE YOU GOOD COUNSELING ABOUT YOUR FUTURE. SO GO AHEAD AND <a href="http://www.trademoneyguide.com" rel="nofollow">click here </a><br />HAVE A BRIGHT FURTRE.<br />THANQvishalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06861738870984219990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-50179788495324493332010-08-08T19:22:15.571+02:002010-08-08T19:22:15.571+02:00Andy,
Thank you for your kind words. I think you ...Andy,<br /><br />Thank you for your kind words. I think you are very much right - detail is still lacking in my ideas. But please note I want to be an enabler - not set directions but help the community to do so.<br /><br />Moreover, I'm still very much new and simply lack the knowledge to go into details.<br /><br />Your blog is impressive, you have very interesting design ideas. I would like to urge you to either get involved with the KDE design team (Nuno & friends). Another option (in case the KDE artists have different ideas or directions) you could consider working with some openSUSE peeps to implement your vision for openSUSE. There is no reason why oS cannot have it's own distinct visual identity for KDE - we can have our own (oxygen based or not) theme as default!Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-35548009050787296532010-08-08T03:57:44.813+02:002010-08-08T03:57:44.813+02:00I am very impressed with your involvement in openS...I am very impressed with your involvement in openSUSE Jos. I think that you have very good ideas about the direction the SUSE distro should take. However, I believe it is of great importance that, not only you, but all the directives involved in openSUSE get together and perfect your plans. Although they are good, I think that they lack detail. I agree that there is not a lot to say about something that you can't divine, such as SUSE's success in the market. But details are important. Through the emails that you have sent, and the other ones sent by the community leaders, they seem to talk mostly about what to do with the details.<br />Set up a roadmap. Make clear goals, names, places, numbers. They all help. Right now the "#1 KDE Distro" is a good ideal, but unclear.<br />How is KDE the best in openSUSE? What is lacking right now? What will be the steps to make KDE the best in openSUSE?<br /><br />if you want, you can check my blog where I try to get to design details in KDE to customize SUSE and then make openSUSE unique and outstanding.<br /><br />Thank you for your work.<br /><br />anditosan.blogspot.comAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972808216546510969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-23217892686392468622010-08-07T14:17:30.159+02:002010-08-07T14:17:30.159+02:00guys, please don't feed the troll. The GNOME-v...guys, please don't feed the troll. The GNOME-vs-KDE thing is old. I don't like to sensor so I won't be removing the comment just now but if everyone starts feeding him/her with responses I have to...<br /><br />Besides that, thanks for the comments.<br /><br />With regard to the position of Novell: Novell is a community member. Like any community member, Novell mostly works on what Novell cares about AND invests a bit in the betterment of openSUSE in general. The first might or might not align with the strategy, the second I will push for to be aligned with it. But I don't call all the shots.<br /><br />So imho it is NOT needed for this strategy to be completely aligned with Novell. The community has to push it forward - and as I wrote in what the strategy will and won't do, the choice will have its effect there.Jos Poortvliethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05243886270488333877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-19503389086135347952010-08-07T12:19:30.854+02:002010-08-07T12:19:30.854+02:00Ubuntu is a Debian GNOME desktop, simplified to th...Ubuntu is a Debian GNOME desktop, simplified to the extreme.That's certainly as far away from KDE as you can get.chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-35122112347747699112010-08-06T18:49:21.328+02:002010-08-06T18:49:21.328+02:00@Henry
> Forget it KDE-fanboys, the larger audi...@Henry<br />> Forget it KDE-fanboys, the larger audience prefers GNOME<br /><br />Is that so?<br />What about the many Ubuntu users who have installed the kubuntu-desktop package, therefore turning it into KUbuntu - did you count those?<br /><br />> and THAT is why Ubuntu is so popular; because they focus<br />> on the desktop that users want.<br /><br />I think you got your causality a little mixed up.<br />If I had to speculate, I'd guess the number of people who only use Gnome because of Ubuntu, is MUCH higher than the number of people who only use Ubuntu because of Gnome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-83757741611474664692010-08-05T17:27:10.538+02:002010-08-05T17:27:10.538+02:00>My advice is to deliver GNOME 3 builds early.
...>My advice is to deliver GNOME 3 builds early.<br /><br />+1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-43904293634199871592010-08-05T10:02:47.612+02:002010-08-05T10:02:47.612+02:00> Working on creating a great end user product....> Working on creating a great end user product.<br />> And both the Gnome and KDE people would be able to work with it,<br />> as would the Apache team, the Kernel team and all others in the community!<br /><br />+1 for involving more people, unifying things, fostering cooperation and becoming central role in there. :)<br /><br />Even getting the kernel people to cooperate with the desktop people, or Apache people is really awesome. This is something that could move us all forward.Diederik van der Boorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11435808496879023545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-54087925945689465432010-08-04T19:46:24.024+02:002010-08-04T19:46:24.024+02:00I agree that KDE should not be the defining strate...I agree that KDE should not be the defining strategy for OpenSUSE. I liked KDE a lot in the past and it was my main desktop for 8 years or so, but it is not what makes me stay. I use Gnome nowadays since either I have outgrown KDE, or KDE has found another audience. <br /><br />The strengths I see OpenSuse have are increasingly in the package management area. Zypper is the best package management tool around, and the build service and hosted repositories are great. There is much potential for growth there, work to bring even more software easily accessible to the user. Perhaps something like an "app store" can be developed on this infrastructure. It may sound as going against free software ideals, but the convenience of purchasing software as an integrated experience could work also for free software. The Click'N'Run effort from Linspire seems to have failed, but OpenSuse is much better positioned for something like this.<br /><br />The Suse Gallery and the Suse Studio also builds on these strengths. The next step as I see it is integration with the cloud. For example, make it possible to build Amazon EC2 images, or provide a custom hosts for virtualization, could work well as a revenue stream too.Claeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03109445368416268242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-23628244064291982562010-08-04T12:11:18.403+02:002010-08-04T12:11:18.403+02:00While the 'power user' proposal does appea...While the 'power user' proposal does appeal to me, there is a real need for 'Aunt Tilly' spins too. Mandriva's current problems make it less appealing than it used to be, and *buntu doesn't appeal to everyone. The solid base of OpenSUSE would be a really good place for the 'I only want to work' people, while the rest of us have the full range to go for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-27585304990971269192010-08-04T10:14:39.402+02:002010-08-04T10:14:39.402+02:00KDE is designed as a very 'poweruser-style'...KDE is designed as a very 'poweruser-style' desktop environment. Thus you will never be able to turn it into an Ubuntu-GNOME-mock-up. <br /><br />Or you might as well simply use the real GNOME instead.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-82025490542866066832010-08-04T09:47:30.903+02:002010-08-04T09:47:30.903+02:00I would like openSUSE to be the "Ubuntu for K...I would like openSUSE to be the "Ubuntu for KDE". Ubuntu, as we all know is focussed on GNOME as its customised desktop. With each openSUSE release, I hope to see similar customisation on the KDE desktop.<br /><br />KDE SC has provided tons of ideas and technologies but I feel these need to be streamlined (such as activities) and present them to a user in a way which is most intuitive. openSUSE, IMO, is best placed to do this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-19122098088993025882010-08-04T09:28:40.988+02:002010-08-04T09:28:40.988+02:00IMHO openSUSE should strife to deliver the best de...IMHO openSUSE should strife to deliver the best desktop experience, full stop. You have to compete with Ubuntu, there is no getting 'round it. <br /><br />My advice is to deliver GNOME 3 builds early.<br /><br />GNOME 3 will very probably be the only really new and exciting thing happening in the next two years; KDE 4 has come and failed to excite. GNOME 3 sets new standards for user-friendliness, and those distributions who adapt late will be left behind.<br /><br />So, if we focus this discussion too much on KDE, we will miss entirely miss out on that one. And I have little doubt that GNOME will steal followers from KDE massively, once GNOME 3 is out in March, as well as spotlight.<br /><br />Furthermore, we should discuss whether to support the aim announced at GUADEC, to make 'GNOME OS' a more unified experience across distributions, like Android OS.<br /><br />So, I think a focus on KDE is short-sighted and besides the point.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-50519212004113595932010-08-04T08:29:52.133+02:002010-08-04T08:29:52.133+02:00AlbertoP wrote:
"...a strategy without a det...AlbertoP wrote: <br />"...a strategy without a detailed analysis of the available resources does not make any sense..."<br /><br />Very good point, a lot of the comments on the strategy discussion seem to assume that Novell employees will automatically shift their focus according to whatever strategy is chosen.<br /><br />But the truth is that there's zero commitment from Novell to this strategy - except probably the openSUSE Boosters team of roughly a dozen people. The rest of Novell employees will just go about their business as usual, and change nothing.<br /><br />Volunteer contributors are even harder to manage - they each have their own agenda too. <br /><br />Therefore the strategy must fit well with what Novell developers are doing for SLE, and it must have the highest possible level of support from volunteer contributors. Or the strategy discussion will at best have been a waste of time.<br /><br />I hope the election process will take this into account. So we don't end up with a strategy that was elected by say 30% of total votes. If no proposal gets more than 50% of the votes in the first round, we need a second round or third even. Until one proposal has >50-60% of the votes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-53102119031469202942010-08-04T05:33:10.074+02:002010-08-04T05:33:10.074+02:00"As a lizard user since SuSE 7.0 (2000) I hea..."As a lizard user since SuSE 7.0 (2000) I heard these remarks about (Open)SuSE the most over the years:<br />- best KDE-desktop<br />- most and best polished desktop<br />- best SOHO distro (server & desktop)<br />- very good development platform<br />- good for power users & novices<br /><br />Focus on these points. OpenSUSE doesn't have to be ranked at n° 1 at polls or Distrowatch.<br />Keep focus and it will always be a top distrobution.<br />But:<br />- the longetivity of support for the releases should go up to at least 3 years will OpenSUSE remain the best SOHO distrobution or others will take it's spot!<br />- the repositories should be drastically simplified"<br />snip ----------------<br /><br />Makes sense to me.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10299018137464377730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-33627167789894240262010-08-04T05:21:58.268+02:002010-08-04T05:21:58.268+02:00I think the discussion on strategy is very importa...I think the discussion on strategy is very important (I pushed for something like it long ago myself). However I would like to hear plans, not general descriptions even at this stage.<br /><br />Someone might think it is premature, but a strategy without a detailed analysis of the available resources does not make any sense, and discussing of the resources after the strategy has been decided makes even less sense to me.<br /><br />In other words:<br /><br />- Novell should clarify explicitly what will be its level of involvement in the strategy, what component of the distribution it will support, and for how long (I know there is a support period of 18 months, I do not refer to that, but to how long Novell right now wants to commit to maintaining say the components "X" and "Y" in the next releases). <br /><br />- Then, once this is clarified who in the community makes the commitment of maintaining the remaining parts to allow the strategy to be successful?<br /><br />You wrote that what is not part of the strategy won't be dropped. This is another unclear point. Who will take care of it?<br /><br />I feel that without a clear answer and clear ideas on these points, which essentially require a quite accurate estimate of the available resources we are just trying to decide what we hope openSUSE will be, and not a real strategy.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09977603983744700748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-24617551623956422762010-08-04T03:48:16.637+02:002010-08-04T03:48:16.637+02:00I think the KDE proposal actually helps building b...I think the KDE proposal actually helps building bridges, because Novell itself focuses on GTK-related technologies for its business: GNOME is default in SLED and KDE Desktop is quite hidden compared to oS.<br />As for netbooks Novell seems also to be interested in MeeGo whose Netbook UX is based on Clutter and GTK.<br />On top of that Xfce and LXDE are supported on oS as well.<br /><br />The KDE proposal levels the field a bit.<br />And with Novell's commercial interest in GNOME and MeeGo Netbook it's pretty much ensured that GNOME users have absolutely no reason to fear oS.<br /><br />Maybe the KDE proposal could lead to some positive tweaks to SUSE's GNOME as well, eg. shipping some Qt-only applications like Marble-Qt together with GNOME.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-62357863113316387192010-08-04T03:32:26.364+02:002010-08-04T03:32:26.364+02:00What will be done about it?:
I see that there is...What will be done about it?:<br /><br /><br />I see that there is a strategic discussion of openSUSE (http://news.opensuse.org/2010/07/21/timeline-for-opensuses-strategy-discussion/), I'll be very happy if they (or you, or even the community, because it will start talks between developers and community) in this discussion, decide that openSUSE, now has more autonomy from Novell, and to take major decision as the creation of the Foundation openSUSE (http://www.osnews.com/story/23474/openSUSE_Linux_Seeks_More_Autonomy_From_Novell), and that the foundation now has more autonomy from Novell, and decides to return or replace the SaX2 (https://features.opensuse.org/308357) because the removal of SaX2 (http://en.opensuse.org/Archive:SaX2) of openSUSE, was a decision made by Novell, who preferred not to invest in the development of SaX2, for business issues (http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-12/msg00017.html), for this and other reasons, I am in favor of creation, of Foundation openSUSE, and also decide that the openSUSE, switching to versions LTS (Long Term Support), and that support will last for more of three years, among other points that must be discussed. I just want a better openSUSE.Genix Infohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10016743985447277242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-57198485274669991692010-08-04T03:30:59.466+02:002010-08-04T03:30:59.466+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Genix Infohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10016743985447277242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-65373002525781482272010-08-04T02:02:04.237+02:002010-08-04T02:02:04.237+02:00@Henry:
Please, do everyone a favour and read Mark...@Henry:<br />Please, do everyone a favour and read Mark Shuttleworth's post about tribalism. Also read Aaron Seigo's post about the same subject.<br />Hopefully you'll stop ranting, stop behaving like an animal and start being more civil. I also hope you'll come with a more useful discussion, with better arguments to prove your point, and if possible with charts, numbers and/or studies to back them up.<br />Greetings, RicardoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-60144161030100748812010-08-04T00:54:17.423+02:002010-08-04T00:54:17.423+02:00As a lizard user since SuSE 7.0 (2000) I heard the...As a lizard user since SuSE 7.0 (2000) I heard these remarks about (Open)SuSE the most over the years:<br />- best KDE-desktop<br />- most and best polished desktop<br />- best SOHO distro (server & desktop)<br />- very good development platform<br />- good for power users & novices<br /><br />Focus on these points. OpenSUSE doesn't have to be ranked at n° 1 at polls or Distrowatch.<br />Keep focus and it will always be a top distrobution.<br />But:<br />- the longetivity of support for the releases should go up to at least 3 years will OpenSUSE remain the best SOHO distrobution or others will take it's spot!<br />- the repositories should be drastically simplifiedGunter Schelfhoutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12366865.post-56484731107533295162010-08-03T23:36:46.176+02:002010-08-03T23:36:46.176+02:00As a user of the KDE Desktop and Live KDE cd's...As a user of the KDE Desktop and Live KDE cd's. This is what I do to make the OpenSUSE releases work as a Desktop for me.<br /><br />Change the default kernel to the desktop kernel.<br />Add the Pacman and VCL repositories.<br />Add bogofilter and clamav<br />Remove all related virtualization software<br />Use VLC as the default media player and Phonon back-end<br />Replace OpenOffice with KOffice (as of ver 2.0+)<br />Add proprietary Opera Browser and remove Firefox (My Preference)<br />Delete all games (My Preference)<br />Oh, and put the Trash Icon on the Desktop.<br /><br />It takes up 2.7 Gigs of my 11 Gig hard drive (Shared with XP on a 9 Gig partition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com